felicitys_mind ([info]felicitys_mind) wrote,
@ 2006-08-16 14:41:00
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Entry tags:boggart, dumbledore, green potion

Dumbledore's Boggart


What is Dumbledore’s Boggart?
 
In a July 2006 Leaky Cauldron/Mugglenet interview, Rowling suggested we’d be able to develop theories about Dumbledore’s boggart from reading Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
 
A boggart takes the form of what a person fears most, and I believe HBP reveals that Dumbledore’s greatest fear is harm coming to children under his care. Support for this theory is demonstrated in HBP chapters 25-27, the events of the night Dumbledore and Harry went to the sea cave.
 
The Conversation in Dumbledore’s Office
 
Prior to leaving for the trip to the cave, Harry had confronted Dumbledore with the news that Draco was celebrating in the RoR and that Harry had learned Snape was the eavesdropper who had carried the first part of the prophesy to Voldemort:
 
“You’re leaving the school tonight, and I’ll bet you haven’t even considered that Snape and Malfoy might decide to—“
 
“To what?” asked Dumbledore, his eyebrows raised. “What is it you suspect them of doing, precisely?”
 
“I . . .they’re up to something!” said Harry, and his hands curled into fists as he said it. “Professor Trelawney was just in the Room of Requirement, trying to hide her sherry bottles, and she heard Malfoy whooping, celebrating! He’s trying to mend something dangerous in there and if you asked me, he’s fixed it at last and you’re about to just walk out of school without—“
 
“Enough,” said Dumbledore. He said it quite calmly, and yet Harry fell silent at once; he knew he had finally crossed some invisible line. “Do you think that I have once left the school unprotected during my absences this year? I have not. Tonight, when I leave, there will again be additional protection in place. Please do not suggest that I do not take the safety of my students seriously, Harry.” (HBP25)
 
What’s most revealing about this passage isn’t that Dumbledore declared his concern for the students, but that Harry “knew he had finally crossed some invisible line.” Considering that Harry’s insolence toward Dumbledore in the preceding books had elicited hisses and exclamations of disapproval from the portraits on the walls of Dumbledore’s office and considering particularly Harry’s rampage in Dumbledore’s office at the end of OP when he blindly smashed Dumbledore’s delicate silver instruments while shouting at the Headmaster, it's saying something that he realized he had finally crossed a line. Dumbledore had much experience overlooking Harry’s offensive behavior to himself, but he wouldn’t overlook an accusation that he was leaving the students unprotected.
 
Moreover, before Harry was sent off to Gryffindor Tower, Dumbledore laid down firm rules for Harry’s protection that he repeated several times so there would be no misunderstanding and so Harry would comprehend that consenting to Dumbledore’s rules was a non-negotiable condition of accompanying him to the cave:
 
“I take you on one condition: that you obey any command I might give you at once, and without question.”
 
“Of course.”
 
“Be sure to understand me, Harry. I mean that you must follow even such orders as ‘run,’ ‘hide,’ ‘or ‘go back.’ Do I have your word?” 
 
“I—yes, of course.”
 
“If I tell you to hide, you will do so?”
 
“Yes.”
 
“If I tell you to flee, you will obey?”
 
“Yes.”
 
“If I tell you to leave me and save yourself, you will do as I tell you?”
 
“I—“
 
“Harry?”
 
“Yes, Sir.” (HBP25)
 
 
So before leaving for the cave, Rowling made sure we understood Dumbledore’s profound concern for the welfare of the students in his care. As a final protection for Harry, Dumbledore insisted that he put on his Invisibility Cloak for the trip to Hogsmeade.
 
 
The Experience in the Sea Cave
 
When they reached the cave, Dumbledore dried Harry off, insisted on using his own blood to open the cave wall, and led the way through the cave, catching Harry when he slipped, instructing Harry to stay close to the wall, to avoid the water, and to conjure fire should the Inferi leave the lake. 
 
When Dumbledore determined that the green potion had to be drunk in order to retrieve the Horcrux at the bottom of the basin, he again reminded Harry of the rules:
 
“You remember,” said Dumbledore, “the condition on which I brought you with me?”
 
Harry hesitated, looking into the blue eyes again that had turned green in the reflected light of the basin.
 
“But what if—?”
 
“You swore, did you not, to follow any command I gave you?”
 
"Yes, but—“
 
“I warned you, did I not, that here might be danger?”
 
“Yes,” said Harry, “but—“
 
“Well, then,” said Dumbledore, shaking back his sleeves once more and raising the empty goblet, “you have my orders.”
 
“Why can’t I drink the potion instead?” asked Harry desperately.
 
“Because I am much older, much cleverer, and much less valuable,” said Dumbledore. (HBP26)
 
What did Dumbledore experience when he drank the green potion in the cave? Taking their cues from Rowling, many theorists are referring to the potion as a liquid boggart, which suggests the potion would elicit different images and experiences for each potential drinker. This theory generally goes on to claim that Dumbledore was forced to imagine the deaths of James and Lily Potter, but I don’t believe that’s true. I think the drinker of the phosphorescent green potion was forced to experience Tom Riddle’s torture of  Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop during the orphanage’s annual summer outing many years earlier.
 
As Mrs. Cole told Dumbledore on the day he met Tom Riddle:
 
“Billy Stubb’s rabbit . . . well, Tom said he didn’t do it and I don’t see how he could have done, but even so, it didn’t hang itself from the rafters, did it?” . . . But I’m jiggered if I know how he got up there to do it.  All I know is he and Billy had argued the day before.  And then. . .on the summer outing—we take them out, you know, once a year, to the countryside or to the seaside—well, Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop were never quite the same afterwards, and all we ever got out of them was that they’d gone into a cave with Tom Riddle. He swore they’d just gone exploring, but something happened in there, I’m sure of it.” (HBP13)
 
When Dumbledore met 11-year-old Tom a few minutes later, Tom thought Dumbledore was a doctor trying to trick Tom into an insane asylum. Even though neither Dumbledore nor Mrs. Cole had mentioned any “incidents,” Riddle spontaneously denied harming Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop and clearly believed they were the reason he was being institutionalized. This is a clear hint from Rowling that Tom Riddle had done something sadistic to the two children in the cave that day:
 
“You can’t kid me! The asylum, that’s where you’re from, isn’t it? ‘Professor,’ yes of course—well, I’m not going, see? That old cat’s the one who should be in the asylum. I never did anything to little Amy Benson or Dennis Bishop, and you can ask them, they’ll tell you!” (HBP13)
 
What might he have done? We can somewhat guess from the magical abilities Tom boastingly told Dumbledore he had developed on his own:
 
“I can make things move without touching them, I can make animals do what I want them to do, without training them. I can make bad things happen to people who annoy me. I can make them hurt if I want to.” (HBP13)
 
The first clue that Dumbledore was reliving the torture of Amy and Dennis through the potion is that Dumbledore was speaking in quite childlike language for most of the time he was drinking it:
 
After 3 ½ goblets of green potion Dumbledore’s eyes closed, his face twitched, he appeared to be dreaming a horrible dream, and he spoke in a frightened voice:
 
“I don’t want . . . don’t make me . . . don’t like . . . want to stop ‘ ‘ ‘
 
After four full goblets:
 
“No . . .I don’t want to . . . I don’t want to . . . Let me go . . . Make it stop, make it stop.”
 
After five goblets, Dumbledore screamed:
 
No, no, no, no, I can’t, I can’t, don’t make me, I don’t want to . . .”
 
After six goblets:
 
“It’s all my fault, all my fault,” he sobbed. “Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh please make it stop, and I’ll never, never again . . . “
 
After seven goblets, “Dumbledore began to cower as though invisible torturers surrounded him; his flailing hand almost knocked the refilled goblet from Harry’s trembling hands as he moaned,"
 
“Don’t hurt them, don’t hurt them, please, please, it’s my fault, hurt me instead . . . “
 
After eight goblets Dumbledore shook from head to toe and fell forward screaming and hammering his fists on the ground:
 
“Please, please, please, no . . . not that, not that, I’ll do anything . . .“
 
On the ninth goblet, Dumbledore “drank like a child dying of thirst, but when he had finished, he yelled again as though his insides were on fire”:
 
“No more, please no more . . .”
 
After the tenth goblet, Dumbledore began to scream in more anguish than ever:
 
"I want to die! I want to die! Make it stop, make it stop, I want to die!”
 
After the eleventh goblet:
 
“KILL ME!”
 
After the twelfth goblet, Dumbledore collapsed unconscious.
 
Although it’s a popular theory that the potion made Dumbledore think of the death of the Potters, does that appear to be the case when looking closely at what Dumbledore was saying? If he had been thinking of the Potters, why would he say, “Let me go”?  I contend that Dumbledore was reliving the torture of the children while drinking the potion and was speaking as the children had spoken to Tom Riddle, who was probably  punishing them for something.  In one place, Dumbledore was even described as drinking “like a child dying of thirst,” and that is a curious thing for Rowling to have written. Would we have been less sympathetic if Dumbledore had been described as “drinking like a man dying of thirst?” No, so the reference to a child is a deliberate clue that Dumbledore was reliving the torture of Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop in that cave.
 
Dumbledore was speaking as the children were speaking in the memory, but with one exception that occurred about halfway through the potion. Notice the shifting pronouns in the following two sentences that were spoken in succession:
 
“It’s all my fault, all my fault,” he sobbed. “Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh please make it stop, and I’ll never, never again . . . “
 
[“Dumbledore began to cower as though invisible torturers surrounded him; his flailing hand almost knocked the refilled goblet from Harry’s trembling hands as he moaned,]
 
“Don’t hurt them, don’t hurt them, please, please, it’s my fault, hurt me instead . . . “
 
We’re thrown off by the repetition of “my fault” in both sentences, but clearly the first voice (child) knows why the torture is happening (“It's all my fault . . . I know I did wrong . . . I’ll never, never again . . .”) whereas the second voice (Dumbledore) says, “Don’t hurt them” and “hurt me instead.” This is the only one of Dumbledore’s utterances in which the speaker 1) is not the victim, 2) refers to more than one person being hurt, 3) uses a third person pronoun, and 4) asks that the torture be redirected to himself.  In the other utterances, it’s clear that the speaker is begging that the torture he or she is experiencing be stopped.
 
And very importantly, “Don’t’ hurt them” was spoken at the only time during the potion drinking that Dumbledore cowered and appeared to be trying to push something away from him, which is key to understanding this passage. The physical threat immediately upon the children in his potion-induced dream spurred Dumbledore’s desire to save them to such a degree that his own voice broke through the mental incapacitation caused by the potion.  This happened two more times that evening: first, when the Inferi threatening Harry enabled him to rally to conjure a protective ring of fire, and second, when the Dark Mark threatening the students at Hogwarts enabled him to rally to race to the Astronomy Tower.  In all three examples, Dumbledore’s sense of impending physical danger to children worked as a stimulant that enabled a temporary recovery in the midst of overwhelming physical or mental incapacitation. Moreover, Dumbledore’s “hurt me instead” request to the invisible torturer in the cave is a foreshadowing of what would happen shortly on the Astronomy Tower.
 
This momentary break-through is consistent with Dumbledore’s willingness to sacrifice himself, demonstrated by the conditions he set upon Harry before they left Hogsmeade (“If I tell you to leave me and save yourself, you will do as I tell you?”) and to his ultimate sacrifice on the Astronomy Tower when he pleaded with Severus Snape to cast the Avada Kedavra that would end Dumbledore’s life, thereby saving Draco from becoming a killer and preserving Snape’s life to help Harry defeat Voldemort.
 
Why would Voldemort create a potion that would cause the drinker to relive the experience of Amy and Dennis? Because Tom Riddle was proud of torturing those children with powers he had developed on his own. And just as he had gotten away with framing Hagrid for killing Moaning Myrtle but created the diary so he could take full credit for opening the chamber, so he left behind a record in the form of a potion that revealed what he had done to the orphans in the sea cave. 
 
This fits a pattern whereby Voldemort's Horcruxes and their hiding places are chosen to showcase his magical brilliance in places he considers significant to his own very special life. Moreover, he always leaves enough evidence to establish what he did in those places.
 
1) The Riddle Diary Horcrux. 

The diary once owned by T.M. Riddle was a weapon Horcrux constructed to open the Chamber of Secrets so that Tom Marvolo Riddle could at last get the credit he had been forced to give to Hagrid in 1943.  He wanted people to know, via the diary, that Tom Marvolo Riddle was the true Heir of Slytherin who had been brilliant enough as a fifth year student to find and open Slytherin’s Chamber of Secrets and frame Hagrid for the crime (which is why the memory of the framing of Hagrid was placed in the diary).  Lucius was only temporarily holding it; its ultimate destination was Hogwarts, where the original events had taken place.
 
2) The Peverell Ring Horcrux.  

Riddle could easily have modified Morfin's memory to make him think the ring was safe at Gringotts so that Morfin’s mind would be easy over the fact that Marvolo’s ring was no longer on his finger. That way Morfin wouldn’t have been yammering about losing Marvolo’s heirloom ring when the murder of the Riddles was being investigated. As Dumbledore told Harry:
 
“[Morfin] permitted himself to be led off to Azkaban without a fight. All that disturbed him was the fact that his father’s ring had disappeared. ‘He’ll kill me for losing it,’ he told his captors over and over again. ‘He’ll kill me for losing his ring.’” (HBP17). 
 
The false memory Riddle did plant in Morfin’s mind was so powerful that Morfin bragged about killing the Riddles, so why leave a loose end knowing that Morfin would obsess about the missing ring and potentially give the game away by hinting that someone else was involved? Frank Bryce had seen a teenage boy at the Riddle house that day, so that fact added to Morfin’s state of agitation was a huge risk. But from Voldemort’s point of view, it made sense to leave that loose end because he was planning to wear the ring at Hogwarts long enough for everyone to see it before returning it to the Gaunt ruins, thereby leaving evidence that Tom Marvolo Riddle was the mastermind of the entire event: he had killed the adult Riddles using Morfin’s wand, framed Morfin with a powerful false memory, and stolen the Peverell ring. It fits the diary pattern in that he couldn’t resist leaving evidence of evil he was proud of committing and had managed to cover up. He hid the ring in the place where his Slytherin blood had resided, making it a significant location.
 
3) The Slytherin Locket Horcrux. 

This seems to break the pattern of connecting a Horcrux to a location closely associated with that particular Horcrux; however, there is a connection between the cave and locket via Parseltongue. The ability to speak to snakes was Slytherin’s signature power, and young Tom Riddle told Dumbledore that it was on the orphanage’s annual outings that he discovered his ability to speak to snakes. So in the cave, one of the locations associated with a summer outing, he decided to hide Slytherin’s locket; the cave was definitely significant to Riddle because he had used it to abuse two children magically, using powers he had developed without any training.  It fits Voldemort’s pattern that the potion would make the drinker relive the torture of Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop in order to know what Voldemort had done there, just as he had with the diary and ring.

4) I speculate in another essay that the Hufflepuff Cup has been Transfigured into the Medal for Magical Merit and hidden in the Hogwart's trophy room.  This would be Hogwarts as a significant place because Tom Riddle was happy and had learned to develop his magical powers there  (as opposed to the Diary Horcrux that was more specifically related to the Chamber of Secrets).  The object we’ve seen most likely to be the Transfigured cup is Tom Riddle’s Medal for Magical Merit. I had at first questioned it because Voldemort hates his Muggle name, but it fits with his pattern of leaving clues to what he's done. And I won’t be surprised if the medal is examined closely and found to have a tiny badger on it similar to the tiny snake on the bathroom tap marking the opening to the Chamber of Secrets. http://felicitys-mind.livejournal.com/1383.html
 
Getting back to Hogsmeade
 
The potion was also a poison if Hermione’s hint at the beginning of HBP was a foreshadowing as it appears to have been: when she saw Dumbledore’s hand at the start of term feast in September, she said “"But there are some injuries you can't cure . . . old curses . . . and there are poisons without antidotes. . . ." (HBP8) Dumbledore later confirmed that a terrible curse upon the ring had damaged his hand, so we should consider her comment a hint that we were going to see a poison that had no antidote. The poisoned mead did have an antidote, so the green potion must also have been a poison that did not have an antidote. Dumbledore said Voldemort wouldn’t want the drinker to be killed right away because Voldemort would want to question the person who took the Horcrux. But would Voldemort go to all the trouble to make the cave Horcrux as difficult to reach and obtain as he did only to use a non-deadly potion or one containing a poison that could be neutralized with a bezoar or antidote? No. And from the effects the potion had on Dumbledore, we can expect that it was ending his life.
 
After drinking the twelfth goblet of potion, Dumbledore collapsed unconscious. Harry was able to revive him with two Rennervate! spells, after which Dumbledore’s eyes flickered and he asked for water. As Harry unsuccessfully tried to give Dumbledore water, he had to raise the weakened Dumbledore’s head to let him drink, and at one point, Dumbledore rolled onto his side and drew “great, rattling breaths that sounded agonizing.” When Harry noticed that Dumbledore’s breath was fading, he turned to the lake for water and spilled it on Dumbledore’s face as an Inferius pulled him backwards. Harry forgot that the Inferi could be driven back by fire, and his shouted spells were useless against them; they rose up from the lake, lifted him off his feet and began carrying him to the water. Suddenly fire erupted because Dumbledore, stimulated by Harry’s helplessness, had rallied from his incapacitated state to save him:
 
“But then, through the darkness, fire erupted: crimson and gold, a ring of fire that surrounded the rock so that the Inferi holding Harry so tightly stumbled and faltered . . . Dumbledore was on his feet again, pale as any of the surrounding Inferi, but taller than any too, the fire dancing in his eyes; his wand was raised like a torch and from its tip emanated the flames, like a vast lasso, encircling them all with warmth.” (HBP27)
 
Dumbledore scooped up the locket, gestured Harry to his side, led Harry safely to the boat, and then when the Inferi had slipped back into the lake and the immediate danger was over, Dumbledore once more failed physically as “all his efforts seemed to be going into maintaining the ring of protective flame round them."  Dumbledore required Harry's help getting into the boat. Only when they reached the safety of the shore did Dumbledore let his wand hand fall, and the ring of fire vanished. Dumbledore then needed to lean against the cave wall:
 
“I am weak . . .” he said.
 
“Don’t worry, sir, said Harry at once, anxious about Dumbledore’s extreme pallor and air of exhaustion. “Don’t worry, I’ll get us back . . .Lean on me, sir . . .”
 
And pulling Dumbledore’s uninjured arm around his shoulders, Harry guided his headmaster back around the lake, bearing most of his weight.” (HBP27
 
Harry gave the blood tribute to open the archway, then “back under the starry sky, Harry heaved Dumbledore onto the top of the nearest boulder and then to his feet. Sodden and shivering, Dumbledore’s weight still upon him,” Harry Apparated them back to Hogsmeade, but no sooner had they arrived when “Dumbledore staggered against him. . . . . And to Harry’s horror, Dumbledore sank to the ground.” (HBP27)
 
Rosmerta appeared, pointed out the Dark Mark over the Astronomy Tower, and Dumbledore revived just as he had when Harry had been attacked by the Inferi:
 
“When did it appear?” asked Dumbledore, and his hand clenched painfully upon Harry’s shoulder as he struggled to his feet.”
 
“We need to return to the castle at once,” said Dumbledore. “Rosmerta”—and though he staggered a little, he seemed wholly in command of the situation—“we need transport—brooms—“
 
“ . . . Harry and Dumbledore kicked off from the ground and rose up into the air. As they sped toward the castle, Harry glanced sideways at Dumbledore, ready to grab him should he fall, but the sight of the Dark Mark seemed to have acted upon Dumbledore like a stimulant: He was bent low over his broom, his eyes fixed upon the Mark, his long silver hair and beard flying behind him on the night air.” (HBP27)
 
The conversation on the AstronomyTower
 
They reached the Tower safely, but,
 
In the dim green glow from the Mark, Harry saw Dumbledore clutching at his chest with his blackened hand.” (HBP27)
 
Dumbledore was weakening again and sent Harry to get Severus Snape; however, he heard Draco pounding up the stairs, and in another act of self-sacrifice, he used the few seconds he had to freeze Harry with a full body-bind spell.  Harry could not understand at first because Dumbledore had used a nonverbal spell, and Harry surmised that by casting the freezing spell on Harry, Dumbledore had used the seconds available to him immobilize Harry rather than defend himself.  But even in light of Dumbledore's weakness, is that all Dumbledore had been able to do?

In OP27, when the DA had been busted and Dumbledore was about to be arrested by two Aurors on Fudge's order, Dumbledore managed to knock out Fudge, Umbridge, Shacklebolt, and Dawlish single-handedly while sparing McGonagall, Harry, and Marietta.  Surely even weakened Dumbledore could take on two sixth year students by himself.  But Dumbledore didn't take action to defend himself against Draco.  Dumbledore wanted to talk to Draco to save him from becoming a killer, so in freezing Harry and allowing Draco to expel his wand over the ramparts, Dumbledore allowed Draco to appear to have power over Dumbledore.  Had Dumbledore tried to body-bind Draco as he had with Harry, Draco wouldn’t have come to any self-awareness, and if Dumbledore had kept his wand and allowed Draco to keep his, Draco would have been too threatened to learn anything from Dumbledore.
 
As their conversation progressed, Dumbledore, wandless and defenseless, continued to slide down the rampart as he became physically weaker from the poison. Dumbledore had wanted to talk to Draco all year but knew he couldn't without endangering the boy's life, so by allowing himself to be weak (magically and physically) before Draco, he bought time to speak personally to him— to make Draco see that he wasn't a killer by reminding him several times of the task he was there to perform, to affirm his personal trust in Severus Snape, to acknowledge that Draco's his “crude and badly judged measures” with the necklace and mead had not resulted in permanent harm to Katie and Ron, and most importantly, to make Draco realize that help would be available to him and his family through the Order.
 
In the context of Dumbledore’s boggart, the whole conversation was about saving Draco. The two times Dumbledore reproved Draco occurred when he referred to Hermione as a Mudblood (“Please do not use that offensive word in front of me”) and when Dumbledore thought Draco had allowed the werewolf Fenrir Greyback into the school (“ . . .I am a little shocked that Draco here invited you, of all people, into the school where his friends live . . .”). (HBP27)
 
Dumbledore made the ultimate sacrifice for his current and future students by pleading with Snape to kill him on the Tower, thereby preventing Draco from killing while saving Snape’s life because of the Unbreakable Vow. By preserving Snape, who is now in a stronger position with Voldemort, Snape will be able to help Harry vanquish Voldemort, which was always Dumbledore's goal. And evidence that Draco was "saved" is that when Dumbledore said he was shocked that Draco invited Fenrir into the school,  Draco was more concerned to assure Dumbledore's that he had not done so than he was concerned about the opinions of the Death Eaters listening behind him; in other words, even though he knew Dumbledore was going to die that night and he would be returning to Voldemort in the company of the DE's, he nevertheless openly sought Dumbledore's approval despite the insult to the DE's behind him.
 
In the space of HBP chapters 25 through 27, it’s very clear that Rowling has arranged two scenes in which Dumbledore’s concern for the safety of children entrusted to him form a pair of bookends on either side of the cave visit. The bookend passages and Voldemort’s Horcrux patterns are the key to understanding what happened to Dumbledore when he drank the green potion.  And given Rowling’s suggestion that theories about Dumbledore’s boggart could be developed from HBP, I believe these scenes collectively demonstrate that his boggart would take the form of harm befalling children in general, and students under his care in specific. 



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[info]zoepaleologa
2006-08-16 07:03 pm UTC (link)
This is very intriguing. I particularly like the idea that Dumbledore relives the torments of the children - that's awesome and fits better than anything I've read - it makes perfect sense when you read it that way.

Nice work, and well argued!

(Reply to this)


[info]sinfuldraconis
2006-08-16 07:14 pm UTC (link)
This is the best theory I have ever read, not only on Dumbledore's boggart, but also on whose 'visions' Dumbledore was seeing as he was drinking the green potion on the cave. Very well thought out, and I get behind it completely.

(Reply to this)


[info]clodia_risa
2006-08-16 07:16 pm UTC (link)
Very inventive. You argue your case well, and it definitely has some analysis that I hadn't seen anywhere else. I can definitely see this being canon eventually.

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[info]nam_jai
2006-08-16 07:31 pm UTC (link)
Very interesting ideas. I've never heard that interpretation of Dumbledore's words as he was drinking the potion, and it makes a lot of sense.

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[info]sophierom
2006-08-16 07:32 pm UTC (link)
Very nicely done! The idea that Riddle uses his Horcruxes as a way to brag about his magical prowess is especially fascinating.

I was lucky enough to attend the first JKR reading in NYC (August 1). She read the scene from HBP in which Dumbledore and Harry visited Tom Riddle and the orphanage via Dumbledore's Pensieve. I've been wondering why she chose that scene to read. Your essay makes me wonder if she didn't want to remind us of what Tom Riddle did to the orphans. It seems to be an important scene, and your theory helps to explain why.

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[info]felicitys_mind
2006-08-16 11:35 pm UTC (link)
You know, I watched the video of her reading on MSNBC, and thought of the above argument a day later. I'm sure listening to her read that passage triggered something in my mind.

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[info]cpqueen
2006-08-16 07:57 pm UTC (link)
Nice. this definitely help me to see that it's possible Snape is not a traitor. Merely, he was a double agent all along, and to kill him in the event that anything happen to one of the children to save them being their agreement. Also, making it easy for him to agree to the binding spell with Draco because he already had a pact with Dumbledore to protect him. Still, he had to keep Harry in the dark, which was easy because he hates him, anyway, but the overall goal is still to defeat Voldemort. The key to Voldemort's defeat is that he is a genius and very talented wizard, but he is not without flaws in his plans.

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[info]angelofthenorth
2006-08-24 01:26 pm UTC (link)
It would fit if Dumbledore made all new teachers swear an unbreakable vow that above all they will protect the children, even if it means causing the death of a colleague.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]cpqueen
2006-08-24 08:39 pm UTC (link)
Oh, that's a good point, too. I didn't think of that one. I was starting to doubt the Snape idea again after reading the 6th book again last weekend. There's another possibility, though!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]dreamer_marie
2006-08-16 10:02 pm UTC (link)
That's a very good essay, and very well argued. I thought that the potion gave you your worst nightmare, but I hadn't thought of the idea of it making people relive the torture of the two Muggle children.
But what if the drinker had been someone with less empathy, though? What if it had been drunk by someone who couldn't care less for the kids? The potion wouldn't have been half as effective.
I'm also not sure that Tom Riddle left the clues for the Peverell ring intentionally. He was only 16 at the time, and he still had a lot to learn to remain undetected. He just didn't cover his tracks well enough.

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[info]mari4212
2006-08-16 11:26 pm UTC (link)
I think the original poster was stating that the drinker of the potion would experience the torture of the children, not just witness it. In that case, it wouldn't matter whether the drinker had empathy or not.

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[info]dreamer_marie
2006-08-17 12:47 am UTC (link)
You're absolutely right.

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[info]felicitys_mind
2006-08-16 11:47 pm UTC (link)
The potion was meant to be incapaciting to anyone who drank it, and the drinker was reliving the torture from the point of view of the children, not from Riddle's point of view. Even a masochist (someone who enjoys feeling pain) would not have had immunity to the potion but would experience the torture as the children had. The drinker would also have still been "out of it" while drinking the potion. And Voldemort's point was to show what young Tom Riddle had done to the children, irrespective of whether the drinker was a sadist, a masochist, or whatever.

Riddle was only 16 when he made the diary that Dumbledore described as brilliant and framed Hagrid for Moaning Myrtle's death. I think he was brilliant enough to think of framing Morfin as well.

Also, I didn't put it in the essay, but I think he deliberately revenged himself on his maternal uncle, Morfin, who had referred to Merope as "that little slut" who had dishonored Marvolo and Morfin. Riddle could easily have killed his father, grandparents, and Morfin, transfigured them all into rocks, and thrown them into a field. No one would have figured out the disappearances or the theft of the ring, and Riddle would have been home free.
But instead Riddle deliberately planted a false memory so that Morfin would be punished with a long stay at Azkaban.

Why did he take the extra step to frame Morfin? My best guess is Voldemort thought Morfin deserved it for calling his mother a slut who had dishonored Slytherin's line (a "dishonor" that resulted in Tom Marvolo Riddle, so you can be sure Morfin's opinion of Merope didn't go over well with TM Riddle).

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[info]dreamer_marie
2006-08-17 12:47 am UTC (link)
I agree with you on that. From the essay, I had understood that Voldemort had deliberately left clues behind to be found out, which I don't agree with.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. It's been a long day :-)

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[info]felicitys_mind
2006-08-17 12:54 am UTC (link)
Wel, the diary was intended to identify Tom Marvolo Riddle as the student who had opened the Chamber of Secrets in 1943, so he did definitely leave clues to his identity in that.

I am also arguing that he left evidence in the Gaunt ruins and in the Cave that demonstrated his brilliance and magical ability and connects him with a crime that occurred in that location. You don't have to agree, but he is a psychopath, and leaving evidence that could connect him to the crime that happened at that location is something a psychopath would do. Tom Riddle was proud of those acts of evil and he wanted credit for them.

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[info]dreamer_marie
2006-08-17 01:41 am UTC (link)
Maybe he wanted that unconsciously (and in that way it's certainly fitting that it was Dumbledore, the wizard who he most wanted to impress, who figured it out), but I also think that he knew damn well that it was a bad idea to cry it on the roofs. He left clues around, but I don't think he consciously wanted to leave them around (I'm a big fan of Freud, and in a Freudian way you could very well be right).

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[info]travisprinzi
2006-08-16 11:48 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure Voldemort ever intended anyone "with less empathy" to make their way to that horcrux (or any horcrux), or at least no person with so little empathy that they wouldn't experience pain while living through the torture of those two children. Let me explain:

What kinds of people would attempt to find and destroy Voldemort's horcruxes? People on the "good side." Now recall Dumbledore's explaining to Harry about the "flaw" in his plan at the end of OP - he described himself as acting "exactly how Voldemort expects us fools who love" to act.

In other words, Voldemort sees love and empathy as a weakness to be exploited. Those on the "good" side are those who, like Dumbledore, have the capacity for love and think love exceedingly important. So Voldemort planted that potion for the purpose of exploiting that weakness in whichever witch or wizard discovered and tried to destroy the horcrux.

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[info]mari4212
2006-08-16 11:25 pm UTC (link)
This is flawlessly argued, well done! I'm not sure if it'll ever be canon, but it's an excellent theory.

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[info]reddwarfette
2006-08-17 12:14 am UTC (link)
Intriguing essay. One interesting point was how it draws attention to Tom/Voldemort's need to take trophies and leave behind clues to his actions and ultimately his identity, a compulsion shared by some criminals. I had assumed Dumbledore was imagining how the last battle between Voldemort and the Wizarding World might play out while he was drinking the potion [and the death of his students and friends], but your theory that he was suffering/reliving the torture of Amy and Dennis instead has been argued quite well.

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[info]felicitys_mind
2006-08-17 12:33 am UTC (link)
Thank you. I was definitely thinking of something Dumbledore told Harry about the box in Riddle's room with the mouth organ, yo-yo, and thimble--that each was a memento of a particularly nasty bit of magic or something like tha. I couldn't help but think of how serial killers supposedly take something from the crime scene so that they can relive the whole crime by looking at the object.

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[info]author_by_night
2006-08-17 01:09 am UTC (link)
Very interesting essay. Good points there!

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[info]talymil
2006-08-17 02:16 am UTC (link)
Very interesting essay. I don't have anything to argue about it and know I'm going to find out if you have written any more essays.

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[info]aloysiusweasley
2006-08-17 02:35 am UTC (link)
Nice essay - I'm on board! I just finished a re-read of PoA, and it really struck me how T.R. was clumsy enough to let himself be seen by a muggle (Frank Bryce). I like the idea of him leaving clues behind - and that'd be like him, leaving some clever way to brag after the fact. Good job! :)

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[info]letmypidgeonsgo
2006-08-17 03:28 am UTC (link)
Hmm, very interesting. I definitely agree on the issue of DD's boggart. I had never thought of what he drank in the cave as making him experience the torture of the kids, but I think it does make sense on many levels. I'm still not sure, though, on the matter of his suddenly switching over to his own POV after drinking the 7th goblet of potion. It just comes out of nowhere, and there's nothing to indicate why he'd make that change, only to change right back again.

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here via the HP newsletters
[info]tamlane
2006-08-17 03:37 am UTC (link)
*shags the delicious meta*

This is a fascinating idea: that Dumbledore was forced to relive the tortured childrens' suffering. I think it's fairly obvious from the text that Dumbledore's greatest fear is leaving children unprotected or somehow being responsible for their harm. However, I'd never tied this in with Amy Benson or Dennis Bishop, so thanks for the material to ponder!

In one place, Dumbledore was even described as drinking “like a child dying of thirst,” and that is a curious thing for Rowling to have written.
I don't know about you, but JKR drives me CRAZY with these odd phrasings. But that's what makes her books so interesting, and that's why they're fun to read over and over again. I'd never thought about this particular analogy, though, and you've got a point! It's curious, indeed.

Moreover, he always leaves enough evidence to establish what he did in those places.
It fits the diary pattern in that he couldn’t resist leaving evidence of evil he was proud of committing and had managed to cover up.
Ahhh! I wish I could put into words just how much I love JKR's Riddle. He really is the ultimate villain, isn't he? So classically sociopathic, yet with such an intriguing spin. I'm absolutely itching to see how this classic urge to "brag" on Voldemort's part is going to fuel the events of Book 7.

Your Slytherin Locket-Parseltongue logic is shaky, but we're all dealing with the unknown in that arena. We have solid evidence about the diary and the ring, but the locket is pure speculation at this point (and it's maddening, isn't it? GRR!) Nice tie-in, though.

I thoroughly enjoyed this essay. Thanks for putting the time and effort into writing and posting it!

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[info]annearchy
2006-08-17 03:46 am UTC (link)
Yet another wonderfully expounded theory. I just re-read chapter 26 two days ago, and the question I asked myself at the end was "What the heck was Dumbledore 'seeing' when he drank the potion?" I think your explanation works very well and fits seamlessly with your idea about Dumbledore's boggart. Nicely done yet again. I'll put this in my memories too.

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[info]sylvanawood
2006-08-17 07:33 am UTC (link)
What an outstanding essay, thank you for that! It all makes so much sense! A Voldemort doesn't care if the authorities find out about his crimes, he's 'above that'. He wants everyone to see that he is the most powerful wizard in the world (or so he thinks).

The idea that he hid the horcruxes in places that were important to him was discussed before, but in connection with leaving behind the evidence that it was him who did it (whatever 'it' is), that little boast... that makes me rethink my own horcrux theory, in a good and constructive way.

I totally buy the boggart theory. I would even go further and state that the potion eventually was a boggart for everyone who drank it. First they drink, and then they experience being children and tortured by Voldemort. That's bad enough and quite efficient, because people who'd drink it, like someone above said, would be against Voldemort, and know who he is. Then, later into the potion, the switch takes place where they aren't the tortured children any more, but now experience their own personal fears. I would really like to know what Regulus Black experienced when he drank it.
And I'd like to know who made the potion. Voldemort? Snape? If Snape made it, Dumbledore might have known about it -- not where or for what it was used (I doubt Snape knew that), but its properties. And that would explain the wording when he made Harry obey him.

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[info]snorkackcatcher
2006-08-17 08:50 am UTC (link)
Very good theory. I'd hope JKR explains what this potion was doing at some point, although I'm not sure it will be in Book 7 (maybe in a later interview).

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[info]rhinecat
2006-08-17 11:37 am UTC (link)
Dumbledore rolled onto his side and drew “great, rattling breaths that sounded agonizing.”

In addition to the points you made, "agonizing" in the context of breathing evokes the term "agonal respiration"--the last breaths one takes before dying.

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[info]ladybluestar
2006-08-17 01:10 pm UTC (link)
I saw this essay recced over at [info]harryhermione, where we are currently doing a HBP Re-read and I plan to rec it over at [info]ghallharmony, the Great Hall for Hogwarts in Harmony.

The idea that Dumbledore relives their torture is sick and twisted...and absolutely perfect for Tom Riddle. I had not given much thought to what else the potion was, beyond a slow-acting poison, but this theory fits very well with the other Horcrux locations that we saw and what we know of Tom Riddle.

And I do completely agree with you that Dumbledore would want to protect his students above anything else. I think this is one of the main reasons why he remained as Headmaster and turned down the Ministry of Magic job so many times--he couldn't protect the students.

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[info]felicitys_mind
2006-08-17 01:59 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the recommendation!

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[info]puppo16
2006-08-17 03:27 pm UTC (link)
This cannot be theory, but fact. Everything fits, and I applaud your ablilities of observation--and writing!

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[info]ptyx
2006-08-18 12:06 pm UTC (link)
Another very well-thought and well-written essay! Congrats!

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[info]lincendiere
2006-09-05 07:05 pm UTC (link)
Like your other essays, this one is very well thought, interesting and strongly argued.

I think that your interpretation of what does the green potion is the right one, or at least, of all the interpretations I've read, it is the best.

The originality and strengh of your essay are precisely to show that the potion doesn't act as a boggart, even if it reveals Dumbledore's one.

Anyway, I have a lot of comments to add, but I'm unable to write them right now, because writing "clearly" in english is a slow process in my case and I have to return to the preparation of my classes. But, if you don't mind unclear comments, I can send you them by email.

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[info]felicitys_mind
2006-09-05 08:54 pm UTC (link)
Your English is excellent. I would never have known English was not your first language if you hadn't said anything.

I would prefer that you leave comments here, not because I don't want to give out my email address, but because other people benefit from the discussion, and the discussion will be recorded in the thread. You don't have to worry about precise verb tenses, or, you might post bits at a time when you're up to it.

Will that be OK?

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[info]lincendiere
2006-09-05 10:31 pm UTC (link)
yes, thank you, it'll be okay.

Thank you too for your kind words : I began to read in english a year ago or so, and learn by imitation, not by studying the rules, so I'm always afraid to make a lot of mistakes. I try to be as precise as possible and it is often hard.

Anyway, as you don't seem to mind late comments, I'll be back around the end of the week, after all my classes, because I think that, outside his main object (Dumbledore's boggart), your essay open a lot of possibilities of interpretations of cannon.

In short, if the nature of Dumbledore's boggart in itself is interesting, I think that the fact that it is revealed by Voldemort's trap can be highly telling about, first, both their personnalities and the way they interact with the others, and second, the relation between them.

For example, the journey in the cave is a clear parallel of the journey below Hogwarts in PS. And both reveal a lot about their designer. Indeed, both Dumbledore and Riddle designed a course with many obstacles that a person has to pass before reaching the final protection of the "prize" (philosopher stone and horcrux). The one designed by Dumbledore is realised by cooperation, as many persons help him by creating obstacles or tasks (Dumbledore believe that we are stronger united than divised) ; the one by Riddle is realised by him alone (He trusts nobody and believes that his idea of what is the worst (gift of blood to open the path) and most frightening (dark and corpses) is the most effective). The first tests strenghts, while the second try to weaken.

When I first thought about this parallel, I thought that the potion was the exact opposite of the mirror of Erised, so that it creates regret (a better opposite to desire than fear), but it was non conclusive, so I dropped it. But after reading your essay, it became obvious that OF COURSE Voldemort is self-centered, so he won't use what is in a person, a personal fear like the one used by a boggart, or a regret created by memories. Anyway, in his eyes, a fear other than the one of him can't be satisfying. It is Voldemort afterall, so everything must be about him.

So, of course, while the ultimate protection for Dumbledore is what lies in the other, for Voldemort it is what lies in himself.

After reading your essay, it seems so obvious that the potion contains memories and that Rowling shown it clearly : the island is compared to Dumbledore's office ("the island was no larger than Dumbledore's office") and the basin is "rather like the Pensieve". But while Dumbledore uses the memories in the Pensieve to understand others, so vanquish fear (as it is the unknown that creates it), Voldemort uses it to reveal himself, so create fear.

And the fact that the memories must be drunk, so internalized, in order to create emotions rather than knowledge, is also highly revealing of Voldemort's ways of dealing with others.

There is a lot more to talk about, but I'll return to Wagner and his influence on Symbolists, if not I'll make a fool of myself in front of my students...

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boggart
[info]gflixfix
2006-10-10 12:00 am UTC (link)
This is really a great and very logically theorie and all arguments fit.
Thank you for given us the information.
The theorie (dream DD during the cave trip) is very logically.
Also the boggart theorie is. Great

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essay of felicity´s mind
[info]gflixfix
2006-10-10 01:10 pm UTC (link)
Well thought.
Voldemort as an orphan growing up in an orphanage with many other children has missed the respect and attention (from a mother). In an orphanage it is very difficult to get attention. But he would have needed it. If a child gets no attention, love and repute it is more possible that the child has low self-asteem. Voldemort in his childhood began to search for self-assurance in an other way. He forces the other children to respect him. These short moments of respect should be made longer and so he collected the all day trophies from the children he once threatened. Through looking at the trophies he was able to relive the strong feeling of respect and reputation. Voldemort who suffered from a lack of self-assurance decided to threaten other children to make him more important to himself. I mean he used the children who surely are pleading (like DD- like you said in your essay)to make himself important (like God) bedause he had their lives in hand.
He compensate his own lack of self-consciousness or self-assurance when he scared the other children. That act made him more worthy to himself. From these actions he learned that frightening other people and to control them is the one and only way to maintain his reputation. Moreover he was very proud of that. We heard that from DD, too. (quotation)
I even think he has taken DD as his role model who had frightened him with a burning wardrobe to make Voldemort repay for his crimes. The last words "repayment for the crimes" doesn´t interest Voldemort. He only thought of the power the magic brings to him. That´s the reason why he was a very clever boy in school. The motif for Voldemort learning how to do magic in such an extent was only the power he would have over other people (to misuse the power).
S. 415 HBP:"Rumours of your doing have reached your old school, Tom. I should be sorry to believe half of them.
V.´s expression remained impassive as he said, Greatness inspires evny, envy engenders spite, spite spawns lies. You mus know this, DD.
You call it g r e a t n e s s, what you have been doing, do you? asked DD delicately.
C e r t a i n l y, said Voldemort. [...]
I have experimented; I have pushed the boundaried of magic further, perhaps, hat they have ever been pushed-
Of some kinds of magic, DD corrected him quietly. Of some. Of other, you remain...forgive me...woefully ignorant.[...]
The old argument, he said softly. But nothing I have seen in the world has supported your famous pronouncements that l o v e is more powerful than my kind of magic, DD.

In my opinion Voldemort uses the power of Dark Magic because it is more powerful than love. Consider his experiences of finding self-assurance he is right.
Love is for Voldemort a foreign word. He doesn´t experience much love in his childhood. I think that love is the reason he thinks his mother Merope is dead.
And the dept for Merope´s death is Tom Riddle. This is also an reason why Voldemort doesn´t like the name Tom and changed it later.
My argument shall confirm your theory that the poison in the cave DD drank.
It is logical. What I am interesting in is to know if Voldemort has to drink the poison to get the horcrux? What do you think? On the one side I think he has to drink it but on the other side he can´t do that without another person helping him. DD said: One person alone could not have done it

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Re: essay of felicity´s mind
(Anonymous)
2006-12-06 08:17 pm UTC (link)
You are just genious, im reading all your essays and they are all great, not only in the ideas they have but you write very well, congratulations

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Re: essay of felicity´s mind
[info]felicitys_mind
2006-12-06 10:45 pm UTC (link)
I really like your observation that Voldemort may hold love in contempt because he thinks it's the reason his magical mother died. Bravo!!

As for the potion in the cave, the potion incapacitates the drinker and forces the drinker to experience the torture from the children's point of view, not from powerful Voldemort's point of view, so he would have arranged to trap others into drinking it, but leave a way out for himself. So I think he put a powerful spell on the basin and potion that only he knows, and the counterspell would allow him to retrieve the Horcrux without needing to drink the potion.

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[info]threadwalker
2007-07-11 03:25 pm UTC (link)
I saw this refrenced on the Griffendor's Sword page.

I wonder... the cave scene is full of guilt.

“It’s all my fault, all my fault,” he sobbed. “Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh please make it stop, and I’ll never, never again . . . “

[“Dumbledore began to cower as though invisible torturers surrounded him; his flailing hand almost knocked the refilled goblet from Harry’s trembling hands as he moaned,]

“Don’t hurt them, don’t hurt them, please, please, it’s my fault, hurt me instead . . . “

Fault, "I did wrong"... torture me instead... Not "stop hurting me".

I wonder if Voldemort put his feelings of guilt (however buried in the potion?). Making Horcruxes is all about splitting up the soul yes? The Basin has a resemblence to the pensive- but a poisoned one. Pensives remove memories that clutter the brain that you can then share with others. Could it be guilt and remorse, empathy that he removed to use as a poison?

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